I haven't read a lot of period pieces, but I have read a couple and a thought just occurred to me this morning while taking my shower. A lot of the time, when writing about powerful men, part of the package of their masculinity is that they can get any women they want and they usually do.
This of course means they have to have partners. Usually in a period piece this will be peasants or maids of some sort. And these maids are always willing and happy to be with these men. I think this is a romantic idea.
I heard one author say that in the time period she was writing in, the royalty lived like "rock stars." But I wonder about that. If you've got a powerful man hitting on you, especially if this man happens to be your boss (or even your boss' son) what's a maid to do? She's not always going to be willing. She may say yes, but if she feels that she has no other option then it's still against her will.
I've sort of been having issues with this, not in others' work, but in my own. Basically, how to approach this idea properly. I don't believe it's a spoiler to say that Henri is in this situation himself. I base a lot of the Wildlands off of what I've seen of medieval stories and what I know of the Feudal system. Henri is a powerful man, a king in his own right. He's had his share of women, but there's no way 100% of them were willing participants. (*here's something of a spoiler* And in fact, I know he had issues with this when he was younger and more impulsive.)
I've known this for a while, but I'm almost scared to present it! Rape is a tough issue to tackle at all. I wonder if in some people's eyes it makes it impossible to redeem those characters. But I've seen plenty of the type of people who I don't believe would like a character who had raped a woman buying this romantic notion that every maid is willing when a powerful man bats his eyes at her.
I'll just let my mind hover over this idea looking for weaknesses and the best way to illustrate this. I think it's possible to be good and still mess up which means even Brandon needs to watch out. I don't think he's messed up yet but that doesn't mean he won't.
And Theresa needs to watch out too. She's very powerful, and she could easily overpower a man. Women are capable of rape as well.
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Thursday, November 25, 2010
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7 comments:
Wow, this is a fascinating topic! I'm not sure how I'd tackle this either, but now I'm wondering if I'll ever (or have already) ran into this with my Max. Even with April, though she was mostly willing, I'm almost certain there were times when she wasn't, or wanted to change her mind and didn't know how to do that.
I think there are plenty of gray areas in between what is rape and what is not rape. And if you are looking to sort of "redeem" his behavior, then I think there's a certain adrenaline that can come along with both being in a powerful position, and just in attraction and sex itself, that can cause a person not to notice certain signs or hear certain undertones of a situation. Unless the girl screams out "No!", I think it could be easy to overlook the fact that an unwilling partner is actually unwilling. There is a difference between being unwilling, and clearly and vocally protesting "no." That's why they tell us girls, you have to say NO, and you have to say it loud and clear.
I'm not sure where you're headed with Henri's particular situations though. I do think your readers sort of *want* to like him, so we'd be willing to forgive a few wrongs. But if he has been with a woman who clearly protested, and he took her anyway, then yes, I'm sure your readers wouldn't know how to forgive that. (I'm not sure I'd know how to forgive that.)
I'll think on this some more later, lol! My kid is having a meltdown :\
I'm still thinking about it-- maybe "redeem" isn't the right word. I wouldn't even look to justify. More like presenting it as is, which is still pretty scary.
Hmm. Maybe that's the key for me. Just learning that some things are simply not forgivable.
And with April, you know, in that one entry with her and Max, I did get a feeling that she didn't want to after a while. (In fact, you even mentioned that in the text, right? Not an outright no, just that she didn't know how to stop or how to tell him she didn't want to anymore.) But the way you portrayed it, it came across as a symptom of all her issues.
Hmm, thanks. You've given me some things to think about to. I feel like I've been sort of dancing around it mentally without really thinking about it before.
You know...it is interesting that you brought this up. I think about Cooper with Gemma. He simply took her. Was it rape? She didn't say no. When I wrote that in my mind I pictured that entire encounter. The last thing I would ever do is paint Cooper as a rapist. And while Gemma may not have wanted it, or been caught off guard, she spent the entire night with him in her bed having sex.
For Henri, I agree that we readers (at least I do) want to like him. He is very charismatic and intriguing. Powerful and that is attractive. Perhaps the context in which this occurs makes the difference between unforgivable and understandable.
Not sure if that makes sense; I'm on turkey overload...
No that makes perfect sense actually. I was thinking about context too. That's important.
In Cooper's case, from what we've seen, it's hard to know unless we get a piece from Gemma's point of view. She didn't come across as willing to me, but I don't think of Cooper as a rapist. That whole situation was interesting because I can see both sides and I can get an answer that's different from each side (His side- no, she was willing and her side- yes, he was the one who just came in and took her.)
The whole event as you portrayed it simply added another layer to both him and her without painting either as the completely bad one I thought.
Hmm! Definitely more to think about.
Heh... this actually comes up in my own story a lot :S A lot of my men occasionally make reference to some maid they were with or whatnot, but we almost never actually see these girls. The guys don't seem to be feeling any pangs of remorse after the fact, so they probably at least think the women are willing, but if she was just saying "Yes" out of obligation, well... yeah, that ain't right :S
I actually spent some time thinking about this when I started writing Naroni. Or, not this specifically; more like "So... the guys shamelessly slept around, but the girls were supposed to keep their legs shut until their wedding night and then stay faithful to her husband unless he died and she remarried?". Double standard much O_o And also, if these guys are screwing around left right and center, and the girls aren't screwing at all, then who are the guys getting it on with? Each other? :P
But yeah, I think there's a sort of grayscale with everything. I wouldn't call Cooper a rapist, even though Gemma didn't strike me as willing. Also, Henri seems like the type who could just scare the clothes off of someone, not the type who would actually force a woman down and proceed in spite of fevered protest (unless he was trying to assert his power, maybe?).
In any case, Henri is an interesting character, and I do like the guy and would like to continue doing so, but it goes without saying that the story as a whole is more important than reader opinions on characters.
And with that, I shall have to wrap up, because I have like four minutes to finish this assignment O_o
Van, lol! I've thought about the double standard too. And it's still going on in this day and age. It's not PC to suggest that a woman can't be as horny or as experienced as a man, but "slut" and "whore" are still two insults I've seen girls reserve for when they really want to strike a nerve and hurt someone. Mean while I've only seen men jokingly (sometimes half lovingly) called "slut."
And I always wondered the same thing. Who in the world were they getting it on with to have all this supposed practice? And even if they supposedly had all this practice, it's possible they were still horrible in bed, especially if they were bedding a peasant woman who might be in a position where she couldn't say no and they couldn't tell.
Also, this is why I actually love Geneva. Sure, yes, she ended up leaving her children behind, but as you've already shown she didn't do it without remorse. She made her decisions in life, and she's already accepted what's best for her is not best for them.
You make an important point and give an important reminder. This has all been very helpful. I realized something I was overlooking which is even more important than the issue directly at hand.
Also, good luck on your assignment!
I think the remorse is the key. I can understand how it might not even occur to Henri that women say yes to him simply because he's powerful and they are afraid. This would especially be the case if women started throwing themselves at him for a while before he actually started approaching them himself (same with Cooper, right?). But if it crossed his mind in the midst of an encounter or after an encounter that the person might not be entirely willing, and that she was only there because she was afraid--and he didn't feel anything about that? No twinge of conscience? It would be hard to be as understanding about that. Even if the remorse came later--he was savage in his youth, but realized the error of his ways later--then you might have a chance of readers being sympathetic. It would depend on how you painted his road to realization.
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